PGLS

I'm really looking forward to watching and also playing the US Open course at Shinnecock Hills. I also have the added responsibility of Setting up the course for this weeks PGA18 Tour. I've already played the course a few times and have enjoyed playing it, The Fairways are wide and the greens are large on the whole and its design was to try and immitate a Scottish Links type golf course. The lack of trees guarantees that there will be little shelter from any wind. Special care must be given to Par 3s due to severe sloping of the greens an d they are much smaller in many cases.
The First thing I do when I start looking at setting up any course for a tour if its a real course is to bring up a 10 day weather forecast for the area of the course. I want to create the same kind of conditions thatb the real players will face whilst playing the course, Like wind speed and and direction, conditions on the fairways and greens. I then consider where the pins need to be to make the hole testing without making it impossible. Players have different likes to how the play the game, some like it extreme with high winds, difficult green speeds like Stimp 9 and 14 whilst others prefure no winds and target golf conditions. Myself I see the game as being testing but not too extreme so that players of all lovels can enjoy the game.

The 2004 US Open had major problems https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-sports/44450880 many felt some of the greens were unplayable, greens had to be watered between each group of players used them just to slow them down enough, So there will not be any stimp 14s this week

The Set up

Round 1 early start on round one with a 9 oclock tee time, So for affect I've included a slitely misty start, with dew on the ground i've made the greens soft and slightly slower with a Stimp 11, Wind will be from the North with a steady breeze of up to 12 Mph, with pins the main be in the centre of the green this should give all a chance to get off to a good start.

Round 2 Will be a mid morning start with plenty of sun ( I would here have liked it if PG had created a Firm setting But in its place I've had to settle for hard) Using the hard greens settings I have tried to give lots of run up to the pin, so there will be no bunkers immediately in front of the pins. A westerly wind will prevail with not more than 11mph.

Round 3 Early afternoon start, Hard fairways should help players cover the distance of the very long holes on this course. greens have been watered but they will still be a steady Stimp 13 speed. Wind from the SW at a breezy 12mph.

Round 4 Should see normal conditions on both fareways and greens and again a speed of Stimp 13 (testing enough for most players without being extreme. Thev wind is slightly higher today 14 mph and the pins will be testing.

I hope this has helped you understand the setting up process and hope everyone enjoys the game

Round

Very good look at the thought which goes into the set-ups Paul, including how we locate pins in accordance with the challenge facing the player that round... just like the USPGA committee will this week in sympathy with the weather and other conditions. Whilst we want it to be a stern test, we try never to go into the realms of the ridiculous... at least not if outside of Tough Stuff!

I think setting up the greens on Soft in round 1 was an unnecessary reprieve. The US Open course was never going to play Soft, when compared to normal PGA golf venues; and naturally, it hasn't.

I'm actually surprised that round 2 is the only round that the greens are set to Hard. After watching the US Open golf, some of those greens have been playing pretty hard, during both rounds 1 and 2, with seemingly good shots bounding all the way through several of those greens.

But, I will say that Hard on JNPG is a bit over the top, on the first hop. Too bad there couldn't be a hardness Stimp meter on JNPG... because it seems like Soft is way too soft, on the greens; and, conversely, the first hop of Hard is a bit too much kick on the greens... whilst it's not quite hot enough on the fairways. Seems like the old Normal setting is the new Hard, at least on the fairways.

Stimp 14 on JNPG, however, is definitely playable. So, it's not like real life where the course could get to be unplayable, particularly as wind starts affecting putts. However, on JNPG, the wind doesn't affect putts, at all... so there should never be an instance where the greens are slowed down, unnecessarily. It only exaggerates the softness, and thus the scoring.

Would have liked to have stimp 14 reflected, to represent what it will probably be in round 4 of the US Open, at a minimum. It's the US Open, after all. If that doesn't get to be stimp 14, than what tournament will? Particularly when considering how slick the greens have been at some of the other big PGA venues.

The only major that doesn't have stimp 14 has got to be The Open Championship, in the UK. The Masters, the US Open, and the PGA usually cut the greens pretty tight, with The Masters and the US Open probably being the slickest. Conversely, The Open Championship typically already has wind as a good defense, preventing the need for slicker greens. In fact, if they set stimp 14, in some cases, they'd have to suspend play for the wind moving the ball on the greens... which again, is not an issue in JNPG.

Finally, the PGLS US Open tournament is set to Breezy (8-13 mph) every round? That's a bit unrealistically low, to be sure. The wind has already been upwards of 20 mph, with gusts to 25 mph, which is indicative of at least Strong Breeze or Windy, in at least a few of the rounds.

As an aside, while I don't personally like the Bumpy greens, because I feel like it's a bit unfair to not be able to see where the imperfections are; it's clear that in the actual US Open, many putts have been taking a hop, here and there.

Overall, I truly don't understand the relatively benign settings, when we're talking about trying to represent the actual US Open. I get that some guys don't like tough conditions; but this setup is clearly not representative of how tough the US Open is actually setup and playing.

Previously, as in the Masters event we run earlier in the year, we set it each day, and use pin locations and real weather forecasts. We did not feel the course as it is was up to that, as pin locations are probably not placed as accurately as Augusta National's are, having been used year after year.

As a consequence, our conditions and set-up may well be a little off. I certainly agree the wind is not representative (although it should be also noted that the wind model itself is not right) and the greens could have been harder, but actually the rain had been on the course prior to the event and I think the conditions themselves in real-life were even more of a shock to the field because of that.

MiMiC wrote:Previously, as in the Masters event we run earlier in the year, we set it each day, and use pin locations and real weather forecasts. We did not feel the course as it is was up to that, as pin locations are probably not placed as accurately as Augusta National's are, having been used year after year.

As a consequence, our conditions and set-up may well be a little off. I certainly agree the wind is not representative (although it should be also noted that the wind model itself is not right) and the greens could have been harder, but actually the rain had been on the course prior to the event and I think the conditions themselves in real-life were even more of a shock to the field because of that.

I agree the wind model is a bit off, but Breezy is still not nearly the club adjustment that the US Open players have been making on their shots. I've seen pros taking 7 and 6 irons to hit 145 yard shots, when they can normally hit those clubs over 200 yards.

I think JNPG Hard fairways are also not representative of how hot the fairways get in many of these events. The fairways should probably be Hard in every case, as it's often not nearly enough to represent the type of kick that is actually happening.

While it's impossible to have the course setup exactly how it's playing, I think it's better to err on the side of difficulty, when we're trying to represent the most difficult conditions the pros will likely see all year.

Yes... we missed the mark... we will try harder in future events.

MiMiC wrote:Yes... we missed the mark... we will try harder in future events.

It's not really a huge deal, if we're just trying to make it fun for everyone.

But, in terms of the actual US Open, they'll be lucky to see anyone break par out there, for the whole event, this year. It will probably be only one or two pros that break par, at best, just like the last time the US Open came to Shinnecock Hills.

Conversely, in terms of JNPG; trying to prevent the top players from breaking par - would probably take Stormy settings, and Hard/Hard, Stimp 14 every round. lol

So, perhaps we could just have an additional Tough Stuff version of the US Open too, for those that want to see something closer to the real struggle that the pros are facing out there.

Then, the guys that like things benign can have what they want too. Best of both worlds.

Hi Guys

An interesting discussion and I thank you for your imput. Bellow you will see the link to the 10 day weather forecast I used to make my settings

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Sh ... Y1944:1:US

You will notice first of all that the wind for most days shows between 7 -10 mph apart from one day when It rose to 17 mph. I chose to ignore that day because it is widely understould that the mechanism used in creating wind is presently broken on anything upwards of 17 mph, constantly we get complaints that the wind exceeds what it should be at this level which is why I left thyis setting out. Wind conditions on our setting group winds of between 8-10 mph under one setting which is why they are all the same.

Rain over 24 hours of thursday and the early start prompted the soft greens but please note I chose stimp 11 because it is often percieved as very unpredictable. (I wish there more of a variety of settings in Pg other than just soft/hard but we have to use what is available

Having read the article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-sports/44450880 regarding the mistakes made on the course in the 2004 US OPEN where some professionals called the greens " Ridiculous" and unplayable I steered away from using Hard greens and Stimp 14 in the conditions.

On a personal note I would rather have players claim that I could have made it harder than that I had made it ridiculous and had spoilt there fun and enjoyment. Tuff Stuff is there if you want a real test of indurance other wise I want the game to be fun and playable.

I dont think I have missed the mark, if I had made it play like the real course, there would still be a few who would come in under par each round but how many would have given up before the third round.

have fun all and enjoy the game

Seasider47 wrote:Hi Guys

An interesting discussion and I thank you for your imput. Bellow you will see the link to the 10 day weather forecast I used to make my settings

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Sh ... Y1944:1:US

You will notice first of all that the wind for most days shows between 7 -10 mph apart from one day when It rose to 17 mph. I chose to ignore that day because it is widely understould that the mechanism used in creating wind is presently broken on anything upwards of 17 mph, constantly we get complaints that the wind exceeds what it should be at this level which is why I left thyis setting out. Wind conditions on our setting group winds of between 8-10 mph under one setting which is why they are all the same.

Rain over 24 hours of thursday and the early start prompted the soft greens but please note I chose stimp 11 because it is often percieved as very unpredictable. (I wish there more of a variety of settings in Pg other than just soft/hard but we have to use what is available

Having read the article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-sports/44450880 regarding the mistakes made on the course in the 2004 US OPEN where some professionals called the greens " Ridiculous" and unplayable I steered away from using Hard greens and Stimp 14 in the conditions.

On a personal note I would rather have players claim that I could have made it harder than that I had made it ridiculous and had spoilt there fun and enjoyment. Tuff Stuff is there if you want a real test of indurance other wise I want the game to be fun and playable.

I dont think I have missed the mark, if I had made it play like the real course, there would still be a few who would come in under par each round but how many would have given up before the third round.

have fun all and enjoy the game

Yes, I agree that it was set up to be fun for the majority of players. But, I don't think that the 2018 US Open is playing anywhere near, "fun," for the majority of players.

Also, the 2004 US Open setup could not possibly have any bearing on how JNPG could ever play. In this video golf platform, with stimp limitations, it just cannot get to the point of unplayable, in this game. Even at Stimp 14, the ball will absolutely stay on the greens, particularly on Normal hardness, unless of course the player ends up below the false edges, whereby it will roll off... as is well intended by the USGA.

At this point in the 2018 US Open coverage, I don't think there's any doubt that the fairways and greens are playing Hard/Hard, at a minimum, when compared to the available JNPG settings.

In the actual US Open, the wind affects the ball on the green too, which is what can make the conditions over the top... which cannot happen in JNPG.

Also, Strong Breeze is not at all out of the ordinary, when compared to past golf games like Tiger Woods Golf, from a yardage differential standpoint. I think one would need to set it to at least Windy or higher for it to start playing what would be considered excessive. But, even on the highest wind setting, it's not unlike how a Gale Force wind has played in other video golf games of yore. I'm not saying to set it to Gale Force, I'm just saying that past video golf games used to regularly set up Major Tournaments on the hardest wind setting, in order to fully simulate difficulty, on the video golf platform.

Ultimately, as far as the wind is concerned, the point is... that the club differential is playing much more than one club, in the actual 2018 US Open, versus in JNPG; whereas, when it's only set to Breezy, it's clearly not playing more than a club up or down.

Further, deliberately ignoring an actual "17 mph" live weather wind, when there aren't even any trees out there to protect the players... just cannot possibly simulate how difficult it is out there. The wind, in game, should be set to at least 17 mph, to simulate how vicious the wind would be playing, particularly without the the calming benefit of any trees.

One has to also factor in that guys have always scored better in video golf, comparatively versus top pros in the real game. Nobody IRL gets much lower than 20 or 30 under par, over 4 rounds - even at the most benign Tour events. Conversely, in US Opens, nobody gets very far under par, full stop... unless it's a shortish course, which Shinnecock Hills is definitely not.

So, conditions on video golf games have always needed to be set a bit harder (not easier) than they are, as far as live weather is concerned... if the goal is to simulate the toughness of real conditions, and the struggle of breaking par in a US Open.

Ultimately, the settings are fine for keeping most everyone happy. But, I just take issue with saying it's modeled after real world weather, or a simulation of what's actually going on out there, in the real US Open; as far as the difficulty conditions are concerned. - Guys are literally losing their shirts out there.

I mean, if we're going to err on the side of easier conditions, than let's setup two different events for guys looking to get their US Open fix.

I took one look at, "Breezy, Breezy, Breezy, Breezy," and didn't even feel like teeing it up. Why not just set it to Calm, while we're at it? lol It's just too much like normal pickup game rounds, at that point... not to mention the Soft green round; (never gonna happen IRL, at the US Open) and only one Hard green in four rounds.

So, for some of us, benign Major Championship conditions may have had the opposite effect - than what may have been intended.

But again, I get that it was setup to be as "fun" as possible for the vast majority of players.

Hello Fellas,

Not to stir the pot but it wouldn't matter what conditions you use, the great strikers of the snap will always be at the top of the leader-board with any settings while harder conditions will effect us lesser snap kings the most.
I would agree the greens could have been hard being it a major but I was happy with the setup.
5 birdies and 6 bogies isn't anything to buy a round at the pub for but, it was consistent with my scoring.

Also your not going to get the big hops in the fairways in hard conditions because the grass is fairway grass and it takes out a bit of the hop. The greens are going to give you that big bounce being a shorter cut of grass which holds true IRL too.

We will have to deal with the wind as is since the calculations for the PP model aren't anywhere close to IRL. Strong breeze is close but anything more
is a bit unrealistic and at no fault of the moderators.

Cheers fellas and good luck out there.

randy