PGLS

Hello, I'm wondering what would be a fair time frame to take a shot?

I see posts of using a shot clock. I'm asking because who says what is fair? If you put a shot clock into someone's head; isn't it going to be distracting and on your mind resulting in a rushed and possibly a bad shot. I can do that without being rushed.

I don't play online that much, just occasionally with my m8 Bobski Fletcher
Always on my mind is "Am I talking too long", and this goes back to my JN6 days as well, it is a distraction for me worrying about the other player.

How do I know who to play with when coming online?
In JN6 when you set your profile there is a checkbox asking "Do you prefer Slow" as well as "Do you prefer Fast" and
"Do you prefer Fast and Slow"
It would help if I knew who would be the slow and fast players. and which players don't mind playing either fast or slow.

I'm not against a shot clock or online play but, what would be a fair amount of time to take a shot?

Just asking

randy

I'd say that a fair time depends on how your playing partners interpret USGA Pace of Play Rules... as they should apply to a video golf game.

I find this particular game to be rather unintuitive, and more time consuming than past video golf games. Nevertheless, I think that the real Rules should be adhered to, insofar as possible.

Unfortunately, some guys are seemingly just out there playing their own version of Speed Golf, just gripping and ripping within 10 to 15 seconds tops.

It's so silly, that guys will tee off right through a fairway, because they can't even spare 5 seconds to pull up the overhead map and check the hole layout.

On Tour Pro, it takes longer to aim, because aiming with the overhead map is not allowed.

So, there are nuances to this issue that make it unnecessarily contentious, when it simply takes time to find a safe landing area, and then try to remember which club goes that far, given the various course conditions and weather at play.

You could easily get discombobulated out of the fescue, just trying to club up and recalculate the ever changing rough penalty, depending on which club you choose. Perhaps being forced to just quickly guess, and then take your medicine is apropos.

The first to tee off on a par 3 also has to play gunea pig; which takes more thought than the next guy up - who already had a front row seat at how the shot will play.

The point of any rule is simply to ensure fairness. But, playing speed golf and then trying to get the rest of the grouping to follow suit is an unsporting attempt to gain undue advantage.

Just as taking inordinate amounts of time is also an undue advantage.

Bottom line, when in doubt, the shot clock should apply equally to all players. If, for no other reason, than to placate those that think other players should keep up with them.

Guys can't very well complain, if you use your Shot Clock wisely, even if they still just get up and hit it.

The trick is to figure out your club selection - while the other players are hitting. Which is the one major advantage of being the longest off of the tee. - More time to strategize.

Ultimately, the shot clock is only good for hardcore rated multiplayer matches; because when you're on voice chat, you start talking about anything and everything, and then start getting easily distracted when it's your turn.

So, timers don't make sense in friendly pickup games, because the goal is not to hem your friends into a box.

Personally, I think everyone could play every shot in 40 seconds or less. But, then the game would be devoid of life, with virtually zero meaningful conversation; because guys would always be figuring out their next shot.

I don't think anything but live events should be taken that seriously.

Plus, unless there's a Timeout mechanism, it doesn't take reality into consideration. Some guys legitimately have to run to the loo within a golf round.

So, unless the game timer rule was more fleshed out, to include a couple reprieves, and more time for par 3 honors, and a bit more time when hitting from hazards... than, it doesn't even make sense, from a practical standpoint.

But, again... I've had guys that heckle me for taking 30 seconds to hit a shot. It's a bit funny when you call their bluff and set the timer proactively, in the next game. Then they start getting flustered, too.

Until guys end up off the beaten path themselves, they can't seem to appreciate the fact that you have to think a shot through - at least, if you expect to recover well.

Trying to make everyone play fast, regardless of context, is kind of like a first-world-problem.

Well its a starting point; I average 30 to 40 seconds so not too bad with the 40 seconds coming from the sand or rough taking an extra 5 or 10 to
figure things out.

thx

smokingrooves wrote:Well its a starting point; I average 30 to 40 seconds so not too bad with the 40 seconds coming from the sand or rough taking an extra 5 or 10 to
figure things out.

thx

I know for certain I'm not the fastest player, either. But, when the 60 second timer is on, I usually take the shot somewhere just before the 30 second mark hits. So, I know I could play a 30 second timer.

The issue is on the wacky shots, like being directly inside a tree or a bush, or even just in any old hazard, with no line of sight to safety. Stuff that in real life no one is going to actually put a player on the clock for.

In a game, the cameras are harder to navigate timely - than just getting out of a hazard in real life, and walking up to a safe landing area. Using the free cam in game could take an inordinate amount of time, due to losing your orientation. - That is, if the cameras are even working as intended. There have been many an occasion where the game cameras go on the fritz, and the player can literally see nothing but inverted colors, as if they're somehow stuck just outside of the game construct. By the way, this is usually caused by the previous player's bad shot confusing the game. So, in fairness... we have to take all of these bugs and game quirks into consideration.

Interesting incident: Dustin Johnson took 10 minutes to find his ball during the 2018 US Open, and wasn't penalized. I think that's an excessive abuse of pace of play. But, DJ has been on the other end of excessive penalties, too. That said, I don't think that the application of rules should be based on how esteemed someone may be, or based on feeling sorry for anyone for being penalized in the past. Taking 10 minutes is slow play, no matter how you slice it. I mean, if a player cannot find their ball timely... than, take one or the other penalty; either for slow, "pace of play," or a, "lost ball." But, that's real Tour golf, with real big money involved. So, it would make more sense to not allow one guy to take 10 minutes just to look for their golf ball, lest everyone else in that situation doesn't start doing it, too.

Nevertheless, the way I would set it up, in a video golf environment, is to give everyone 40 seconds per shot, and 60 when teeing off with the honors. Those are the official, "on the clock," pace of play rules.

However, I would simply add up the strokes to par, on a given hole, and give all of the allotted time, at once. That way, guys can take only 15 seconds when they only need that, and 60 when they need that bit more to get out of a tricky situation. Kind of like keeping your carry-over time, to ensure that no one is unfairly penalized for their overall solid pace of play, just because they get totally out of position, and get a bit flustered.

So, on a par 3, this total time to finish the hole would be 140 seconds for the honors player, or 120 seconds for the following players. Par 4 would be 180 seconds for the honors player, or 160 seconds for each player in the group. Par 5 would be 220 seconds for the honors player, and 200 for each player in the group.

Finally, an additional 40 seconds per shot would be added, for each additional shot, over par, to properly reflect how many shots it actually takes the player to finish the hole.

Then, there would be an official "Timeout" procedure, where all players in a grouping could elect to take a 5 minute break, simultaneously. This would be allowed at least 1 time per every 9 holes, to simulate being, "at the turn."

I think if players were properly given all of their allotted time, at the start of each hole, then players would be better able to pace themselves, and not ever feel like they are playing too slowly. Again, some shots require less time, and some require more. But, it's much more equitable and fair... to just let everyone have the same amount of total time. Then players that falsely think that some guys are slow, would realize the fallacy in that line of thinking, that say... taking 6 fast shots, versus taking 3 seemingly slow shots, is necessarily any different.

Finally, the penalties would commence after 2 bad times, just like real golf. But, I don't think this would happen very often... unless a player just got up and left the game running.

I would say the shot timings for you Randy are well within the realms of 'fair' play.

As it is, we have no control over a shot clock whilst using the API... it has not been built into the available options on the control key side.

I am reliably informed that a future release of Perfect Golf 2 will have the ability for a player to be standing over their own ball as other players are playing their own, and will allow for shot set-up. That would be a major advance in moving away from strictly limited turn play, where you cannot do anything other than assess your shot at present.

Thanks fellas, good stuff.

I'll give online a shot and see what goes.

randy