Hundreds Available - we get a beta..

[whattashot]

Can't anyone wait until a course is finished before they rush it in to the tournament carousel? Geez...its clearly in the PGLS course checker, as a BETA, which means its NOT finished. Does the designer have any intention of finishing it? If not, why didn't he name it FINAL? Why is a BETA course acceptable for a tournament?

Why do I have to ask these questions, that I'm sure others wonder about, as well?

There is one positive note. Its not made by Bortimus. OMG, just went and looked. It is. Well, I'm out. Another cow pasture, I'm sure...not even a real course.

If someone knows the guy, ask him why he publishes BETA courses. Is he ever going to finish one?

[Mwh65]

Keel Strand is indeed a beta course that he has just recently released. The course isn't available for the main tournies as a result but "Challenge" tees can be used from beta courses if they are tested, which duncanmathieson and myself have done, just prior to this course being used this week for Skillz (CTP).

Also you need to check your facts before being rude about a course designer or in fact any PG player. I suggest you go to the courses page, select "bortimus" from the dropdown list against "Select courses by designer:" and see how many courses are final. Just so you know, all of them bar Keel Strand.

Let me know when you create a course ... oh wait, you can't.

[Kimmer1947]

Just my two cents, as a course designer Bortimus is as talented as they come.

[JoeMen]

All this anger and rudeness on internet makes me so down...

[Perculator]

As I have said before, this whattashit guy is a troll. Bortimus is one of the very top designers.

[whattashot]

@Mark..you are part of the rudeness JoeMen is referencing. Perhaps I am too. However, you DON'T know whether or not I can design a course. You just don't, so to say that is rude. On the other hand, I challenge everyone of your fan boys to go look at his courses. One exception. The one REAL course he made. All of the fictional courses look exactly the same. Different name, dogleg left on #1, dogleg right on #2, and the other way around on the next one.The fairways literally look like cow pastures. Many times, I have hit in to the rough off the tee because I honestly thought I was aiming for the fairway.
1. Every single course he has rolling terrain before the green, after the green, and on the sides of the greens. Almost impossible to hold them with the so-called "normal" conditions in this game.
2. On the overhead, and using the F3 key, many times you can't tell the difference between the fairway and the rough.
3. His sand bunkers are surrounded by...guess what..more dipping and rolling terrain, with steep downhills to cause the ball, even with a perfect snap drive to roll toward a bunker, and actually speed up to go in down the hill.
4. Playing SKILZ on one of his courses (doesn't matter which one, they are all the same), I had a 48 foot flop shot and hit it perfect. It landed 7 feet in front of the flag, and proceeded to roll another 68 YARDS...not 68 feet...YARDS. Oh, and by the way, the flag was 9 feet from the edge of the so-called green, right over a bunker.

He might be considered a great designer, and a wizard with Course Forge, but he knows zilch about a golf course. My opinion. You guys can have yours, you're entitled, but don't call me rude, or a troll, or a bastard. Are you not ALSO a troll Perculator? I started the damn thread, how does that make me a troll?

[bortimus]

@Mark..you are part of the rudeness JoeMen is referencing. Perhaps I am too. However, you DON'T know whether or not I can design a course. You just don't, so to say that is rude. On the other hand, I challenge everyone of your fan boys to go look at his courses. One exception. The one REAL course he made. All of the fictional courses look exactly the same. Different name, dogleg left on #1, dogleg right on #2, and the other way around on the next one.The fairways literally look like cow pastures. Many times, I have hit in to the rough off the tee because I honestly thought I was aiming for the fairway.
1. Every single course he has rolling terrain before the green, after the green, and on the sides of the greens. Almost impossible to hold them with the so-called "normal" conditions in this game.
2. On the overhead, and using the F3 key, many times you can't tell the difference between the fairway and the rough.
3. His sand bunkers are surrounded by...guess what..more dipping and rolling terrain, with steep downhills to cause the ball, even with a perfect snap drive to roll toward a bunker, and actually speed up to go in down the hill.
4. Playing SKILZ on one of his courses (doesn't matter which one, they are all the same), I had a 48 foot flop shot and hit it perfect. It landed 7 feet in front of the flag, and proceeded to roll another 68 YARDS...not 68 feet...YARDS. Oh, and by the way, the flag was 9 feet from the edge of the so-called green, right over a bunker.

He might be considered a great designer, and a wizard with Course Forge, but he knows zilch about a golf course. My opinion. You guys can have yours, you're entitled, but don't call me rude, or a troll, or a bastard. Are you not ALSO a troll Perculator? I started the damn thread, how does that make me a troll?

First of all I have built 6 real courses... Riviera, Ridgewood, Colonial, French Lick, Quarry at Giants Ridge, and Ballyhack.

This course was built on rugged terrain on purpose and yes you will get some tough lies if you miss the fairways...which are really wide on this course compared to most courses. That's one of the overarching balancing factors of the design. If you play smart you could hit every fairway on this course. Another factor is that the green slopes are pretty tame around the pin positions.

Although I'm not sure if you actually played the regular course layout if you feel the greens can't be held in normal conditions.
If playing in calm wind with firm fairways and normal greens, there are only a few holes that require more than a short iron or wedge into the green in regulation. You can see drives on most holes will pass the 150 yard barber pole in the fairways. The holes that require longer clubs on approach have less severe falloffs around the greens.

Are you commenting about the difficulty of holding greens during a round using challenge tees? If so that's because the challenge tees are meant to create very awkward shot distances and positions that you probably wouldn't face in a normal round. You may have to experiment with different kinds of shots for those situations.

The aesthetic is not one of a manicured country club, although if you could include a picture showing how the rough and fairways look too similar on the overhead cam I would be curious to see it. I wonder if there are other courses you have issues with visually that I could compare it to.

[NIBNOB]

Another great course.....Thanks for all your efforts over the years in bringing us some truly unique and beautiful golf courses.......

I just played Keel with challenge tees NN12 mid pins without any problems......looks and plays great......

Keep up the excellent work....

[whattashot]

Are you commenting about the difficulty of holding greens during a round using challenge tees? If so that's because the challenge tees are meant to create very awkward shot distances and positions that you probably wouldn't face in a normal round. You may have to experiment with different kinds of shots for those situations.

@bortimus..

Yes, I am. The thread is in regard to CTP tournament. Closest to the pin has many challenge tees that are in rough or sand. There is NO experimenting, in the sense that you hit your first shot as a 'barometer' and fine tune the second shot. In this game, power loss is RANDOM. With rare exceptions, the power loss changes for the second shot, thus completely nullifying the 'barometer' shot.

Not saying you do this, but many designers here gimmick up real courses. For example, at Augusta, there are no pines lining fairways that have branches 3 or 4 feet off the ground. Skunky put in low hanging pine branches to FOIL anyone who is even a little off the fairway. Watching the course last weekend on TV, most players had tree trunks and pine straw to deal with, but no low hanging branches. There ARE some exceptions, but not like Skunky put in. And he can't use the excuse about nothing else being available, because he has the RIGHT trees in many other places.

Thanks for your comments. If you made Riviera, congrats. Its a great course in real life and here.

@NIBNOB

If I shot -14 or better on every round, regardless of conditions, I would be the Pollyanna that you are. Keep up the good work.