Hopes and Asperations for 2019

[Affo]

One more thing. Tournaments should be set accordingly for each skill level. Pro should play only against Pro, Amateur against Amateur etc. Tournament setup can be adjusted that way also. Hacker tournaments can get easy pin placement with calmer winds where as Tour Pros get the opposite. Not every round has to be this but you can see where I am coming from here.

Don't think that will happen here, one setup for all levels. The Tier structure takes care of the difficulty factor, Hackers and Amateurs can 122% each shot without little penalty for snap miss, they tend to lose shots around the green and with reading greens not the setup of the course. But like I mentioned in a previous post, hope Mark and I can come up with something.

[davefv92c]

affo looks like the classics does go into the rankings.
copied this off the player stats page.

Defined as the average number of strokes taken per round for the PGA 9, PGA 18, Stableford 9, PG Classics and PGLS Open events.

anyway i would love to see some kind of altshot with solid teams Country Club come alive and do pair up tourneys on a weekly basis.
just dont know if there would be enough solid teams to play.

[Mwh65]

I believe Andy is referring to the OOM points ...

orderofmerit.php

and not the stats where that line of text was taken from Dave.

[Affo]

correct Mark, the Classics only go into your Stats numbers, not part of OOM or any other Ranking/Power things I do.

[LinksPro]

Ok, I happen to agree and would like to bring it down to 5% but this will lead to more promotions and I guarantee more moaning about having to play at a higher level, people being upset they cannot shoot low 60s any more because of promotion.

That's exactly what needs to happen. People are going to be mad and complain no matter what you do. You shouldn't have a low stroke average and be in an easier level. If you are that good you need to move up. If you are a Pro with a low stroke average you need to move to Tour Pro, if you are an Amateur with a low stroke average you need to move to Pro and so on. It's simple. We need to make the people in each category more competitive with each other, not with people in other levels. And if you move up a level and shoot bad, your stroke average will put you back down into the level you started with. If you don't like it, don't play tournaments.

[Affo]

Just for info..if the threshold was 5% score differential to the Tier average for December's rounds, there would have been 10 players move from Amateur to Pro and 15 players to Tour Pro from Pro, plus more could have moved the other way too.

The promotion cut off would still be under the average of the next Tier up too.

[Biffa]

The second change I would like to see is the Handicapping system. PG Classics has been a great success but TPs are now finding it very difficult if the are players with +10 or more h/cap strokes in the same game as they have -6 or higher. In my oppinion there needs to be some form of cap to the shots you can recieve or a percentage of your playing h/cap that you can use (example a player with 9 shots receives a third of his H/cap which would give him a shot difference of 3 shots instead of 9. Mark is looking into this at the moment so we hope it will be resolved soon.

Not sure i understand why there is a need to limit handicaps, a players handicap is just that, limits on handicaps have changed. I keep seeing
players saying handicap allowances are 3/4 of the difference, but that changed back in 2015/16 to full allowance for singles strokeplay and matchplay here is a copy and paste from R & A Congu handicaps http://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploa ... -guide.pdf

HANDICAP ALLOWANCES

Stroke play Singles Full handicap
Foursomes Half combined handicap of partners
Four-ball better ball Each partner receives 90% of full handicap
Match play Singles Full difference of handicaps
Foursomes Half difference between combined handicap of each side
Four-ball better ball Lowest player concedes strokes to other three calculated as 90% of difference
Greensomes Stroke play Lower handicap x 0.6 plus higher handicap x 0.4 Match play Full difference between greensomes handicap

The ones that concern us are the matchplay singles for the League Tables which is the full difference of the handicaps, example: player 1 handicap -2 player 2 handicap +4 the difference is 6 shots so that is the allowance, and strokeplay singles for Classics which is your full handicap. This is the hard and fast rules for golf handicaps at present and what we are currently using. However this is a private club or society if you like, and if we wish to diverse from the handiapping rules then we can, we could have Local rules, obviously we will need to work out the fairest system for all which isnt easy especially when you have different levels in the mix too. One solution would be have everyone play off same level in tours for example PRO and base handicaps on scores from pro level, however the gulf between the top players and bottom players would be humongus and capping them unfair, very difficult indeed. Again I see suggestions of 1/3 of the difference, bit harsh but a percentage (to be decided) of the difference might be a fair alternative. This will have to be discussed with admin however all sensible suggestions are most welcome.


I also see some players are playing at levels outside there skill level for example a hacker playing as a pro, this should never be allowed not even if the player asks to be moved up, his/her scoring should be the ONLY stat that decides what level of play they should be in PGLS Tournaments, what level they play outside the tours is upto them.
i say this because the current system does not change your handicap on level changes, example: the above hacker is moved to pro on his request and his handicap is based on his pro scores, once he has established a handicap of +10 for example he could then request a move back amateur or hacker at the end of the month and his handicap for Classics and Leagues would be +10 for the next month which is then a false handicap, likewise an amateur playing well has a handicap of -4 and is promoted to pro ( on his scoring stats only) his handicap remains at -4 at his new level of Pro which again is a false handicap based on his amateur scoring. A simple solution for this would be to zero a players handicap in line with his promotion or demotion and then base his handicap on his scores from his new level thereafter.Just my current thoughts having been a handicap secretary in the past.

[Affo]

Good points and I agree that full handicaps should be used. But I also think that a cap should be in place to protect against handicap manipulation. If you are new and have a high handicap, that's just how it is, the real world max is 28 (still?) and if you are worse than that..tough. For events here a cap of +9 would be sensible, most anyone would ever have is 1 shot per hole (if you were a-9 handicap and there won't be many of those)?

[LinksPro]

Just for info..if the threshold was 5% score differential to the Tier average for December's rounds, there would have been 10 players move from Amateur to Pro and 15 players to Tour Pro from Pro, plus more could have moved the other way too.

Sounds like a move in the right direction. Maybe 6%? Once you have the numbers maybe you could put a cap on the tiers upper and lower averages. As far as tournaments are concerned, they should still be broken up so Pro plays against Pro's only, Tour Pro's against Tour Pro, etc. In what sport do you see Amateurs playing against Professionals? NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, GOLF?

[Seasider47]

Tours played against only you own lvl of play would be imposible. We only have a one day change over and it wouldnt be impossible for setters to organise it. Apart from that it is good to be able to watch how better players play the hole and many of these players are willing to pass on tips and words of encouragement. I often play much better playing alongside one of the top players.

Quite a few of us enjoy playing multi play games rather than solo play and it would be near impossible to enjoy these games if you could only play them with someone of your own level.

I am definately seeing an improvement already in the leaderboards. with are seeing more players from top down scoring well and as we see players moving up to the correct lvl it will lower the ave and bring more players in line of a move. We should only care about what players are doing at our lvl, but when I see players making -35 and more week after week and Toup Pros making less then it tells me that something is wrong.

great to see all the import of suggestion on this matter please keep them coming