- Posts: 811
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:31 pm
- Location: Skegness
- Steam Profile name (Required): skeggy47
- Has Liked: 35 times
- Been Liked: 75 times
Hole 11 not clear of route to take as fairway is not included on overhead ...
Hole 15 trees block the way to the pin from the tee ...
Hole 17 tee shot facing wooden fence ...
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:11 am
- Steam Profile name (Required): jswarpaint
- Been Liked: 7 times
h1 shot point by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
I would call this a simple hole - Hole One - the Tees, Fairway, and Green are all in the same line. The Placed shot point lines up the player in the center of the fairway because this is where the shot point is placed. If on hole 1 the shot point was placed in the rough the player would be lined up to the rough. Also on hole 1 a "simple hole" when one looks at the overhead the golfer sees everything because everything is lined up from bottom to top. see pick below:
hole 1 by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
Hole 11, 15, and 17 are "complex holes" meaning course forge has what I call limitations - course forge actually has some built in default even though a designer puts in a shot point. For example if the length of the shot from the player to the green is shorter than to a placed shot point the game automatically aims for the green even though the shot point is in a fairway and closer to the player than the green is. Also if the player has a club that can get the ball to the green the game automatically aims to the green. I think this is how it works but I do know depending on how the hole is designed a player may not be lined up to where he actually needs to aim which is the case with the holes you mentioned the player is aimed at a clump of trees. when you see this which you may even notice with a few other courses one will need to change their aim. Enabling a designer to design holes that cause this default that course forge and or Perfect Golf does allows more variety of holes that the player may encounter meaning every hole is not simply a lined up tee to fairway to green shot as hole 1 is in the pic above. Now, some designers may lay a hole then relay it and relay if and tweak it to where it fits even though at the edges it still fits into the overhead this is welcomed and nice but actually can limit the overall path of a hole.
Consider hole 15 that you mentioned see pic below:
hole 15 overhead by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
So for hole 15 if the player clicks on the overhead they can see the entire hole but notice in the overhead the tee (white ball) shotpoint (grey ball in the fairway) and the pin (green ball) are NOT in line the shotpoint is on the right edge of the overhead but everything is still visible the problem is also that the player can actually hit the ball to the other fairway area of the hole that is shown but there is no shotpoint here this location is actually a better shot BUT the landing area is narrower. see pic below
hole 15 overheadb by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
Where the red arrow is this is another landing area again it is more narrower than if the player goes for the shotpoint fairway where the brick wall is but it puts you significantly closer to the small green. The brick wall shotpoint fairway shot is the safer shot off the tee but provides a longer shot to the green.
The glaring problem with this hole as you mention is that the player is lined up facing into a clump of trees. This is because the designer did not want to make it easy for the player to simply bang the ball from tee to green - consider the pic below
hole 15 cf by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
This is how hole 15 looks in course forge notice the distance to the green is about 272 yards the driver can get the ball to the green - I did not want the player to be able to make this shot so I put up trees however stupid Perfect Golf or Course Forge or whatever lines up the player aimed at the green rather than the shotpoint. ....... so the player has to look at the overhead and figure out where to actually aim hopefully they will notice they can either go for the shotpoint (brick wall) shot OR the narrow fairway - closer to the green shot.
Another falacy with Course Forge is that if the green the designer places in relation to the Tee the designer places in relation to the fairway the designer places can cause the overhead to NOT shown the entire hole meaning the entire hole is NOT shown in the overhead which can be confusing.
This is evidenced in hole 11 as you mentioned. Part of the fairway where the shotpoint is - is cut off the player cannot even see the shotpoint however they ARE lined up on the shotpoint the shotpoint sits in the wide part of the fairway - the fairway the player is lined up on the part of this fairway the player can see from the overhead the assumption is the player will use F3 to figure out that the fairway gets wider - this can be frustrating though. The player on this hole also can hit it directly to the green which is about 185 yards away hence the trees but for some reason on this hole is not lined up on the green rather the shotpoint which is nice ... However, if a person plays this hole on one of the other Tees they will be lined up on the green rather than at the shotpoint. Again, I consider this a fallacy with course forge or perfect golf but perhaps as a designer I need to design around and within these limitations; however, I have run across a few other courses where this same thing happens. Below is Hole 11 in Course Forge but on the overhead it does not show all the hole notice though there is a shotpoint in the fairway but again one does not see this shotpoint.
Hole 11 by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
Pic below shows distance to the green it is close ... hence the trees but fortunately for some reason it lines up on the shot point but then the stupid shotpoint is not shown in the overhead...
h11 cf by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
Pic below shows fairway and shotpoint NOT shown in overhead for hole 11
h 11 overhead by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
Hopefully the Fairway is visible though on Hole 11
h11 aim by Jim Smyth, on Flickr
So now lets deal with hole 17
With hole 17 the player can see the entire hole on the overhead; however, the golfer is lined up aimed at the green - the golfer is basically lined up in a line with the tee the fairway and the green. Hole 17 and 18 of any golf course is usually the more difficult holes of a course and these last two holes were designed this way the green on 18 can ruin your entire score anyway so the designer .. me put up a stupid wooden wall on hole 17 - if the golfer hits the ball it bounces off the wall - stroke 1 for the hole. The thing to do in this hole is to line up with the shotpoint which is the grey ball which is seen in the overhead then the player can hit it to this shotpoint which will leave a very tough shot probably blocked by trees leading to the green; however, and what is suppose to be figured out by the golfer is that the best shot is a curved shot or just hit it straight a short distance and have a tough green shot. What is suppose to happen is the player is to do a deliberate curved shot. This is done by aiming at the shotpoint and then swinging the club so that when the ball flys out it bends to the LEFT towards the GREEN going down the fairway - This fairway is designed such that if the ball hits anywhere in the fairway it is going to roll and stay in the fairway and one will have a decent shot to the green in addition these last two holes have DEEP ROUGH around the fairway and green rather than regular rough which is existence on holes 1 - 16 - Knowing the limitations that the overheads have and the way shotpoints work and do not work can help a player deal better with these situations I probably should have designed the course to "fit" better but then this would have made it more difficult or impossible to have various shot options which I hope this course has from both tee to fairway and then fairway to green according to the type of tee shot one decided to make.
Thanks for the comments and I hope this helps - Thanks for trusting me and allowing me to abuse you with this course ...
Hole 17 Videos Below