Tough Stuff test

[TBone]

For our few Tough Stuff players, this week I am testing the occasional use of Challenge tees. For Victoria Falls, the first two rounds will be from the Challenge tees and the last two from Championship tees. As always, lots of wind and some hard greens create opportunities for a good reward but with a fair amount of risk.
Let me know how you all like it.
Thanks,
Tbone

[cubbies645]

Sounds good Tony this will be interesting...

[whattashot]

Why do soft greens/soft fairways always have to be mud putting also? Its always 8, 9, or 10 stimp. Is there a good reason for not having 11 and higher?

Round 3 in this tournament is an example.

[Riddler]

As a rule if the greens are soft, putting will be slower so usually 8-10 stimp. Normal 10-12 stimp and hard 13 and 14 stimp. The person setting the conditions can use any stimp they want. Had a stimp 13 with soft greens round 1 PGA9 this week, a rarity.

[whattashot]

Olkay, TBone, you asked for opinions. Here is mine. Your comment above regarding "a fair amount of risk" is Polyanna personified. Every single shot in this tournament is fraught with a crap load of risk. Geez What were you thinking?

As for the Challenging tees. Makes no difference. Lots of birdies and an eagle once in a while, but if it wasn't for the wind blowing 40 yard shots sideways and down the horrendous slopes on the edge of every green, I could have shot eagle on pretty much every hole. So, as a barometer of being able to play Tuff Stuff, it was just one less stroke. The final two rounds were more of the same in these conditions. If you play the wind and then hit a snap, the wind makes no change to the shot. If you play the wind and miss a snap, there is absolutely no way one knows where its going. Just a crap shoot.

The idea that you have a 500+ yard par 4 with a 32 mph wind in the player's face is silly. Best I could do was 239 off the tee and still had 274 to the flag stick. Can't get home in regulation. Why can't these tournaments just be tough stuff instead of impossible stuff?

Don't take my comments personal. This tournament is fun to play. Ordinary players will never be able to score worth a crap, but you don't want us to anyway. Thanks for hosting.

[Golferdee]

For our few Tough Stuff players, this week I am testing the occasional use of Challenge tees. For Victoria Falls, the first two rounds will be from the Challenge tees and the last two from Championship tees. As always, lots of wind and some hard greens create opportunities for a good reward but with a fair amount of risk.
Let me know how you all like it.
Thanks,
Tbone

Have now played all 4 rounds under the new format and really liked it. Actually got my best score this year and for a fair while so must be good - LOL

Round 4 was a stinker though but that's why it's called Tough Stuff - play it if you dare !!

[TBone]

Flop7wood, my reply:

"Olkay, TBone, you asked for opinions. Here is mine. Your comment above regarding "a fair amount of risk" is Polyanna personified. Every single shot in this tournament is fraught with a crapload of risk. Geez What were you thinking?"

Flop7wood, thanks for your opinion: What I was thinking is that this tourney, like GolferDee said above, is called Tough Stuff for a reason. PGLS offers many tournaments with varying degrees of difficulty ranging from Calm, 10 stimp, easy pins, member's tees on one extreme, and Tough Stuff on the other extreme. That way, there is something for everyone.

" The final two rounds were more of the same in these conditions. If you play the wind and then hit a snap, the wind makes no change to the shot. If you play the wind and miss a snap, there is absolutely no way one knows where its going. Just a crapshoot."

A few points on this: 1. Even with a perfect snap, high winds absolutely affect the direction and/or trajectory of a shot, but I agree that missing a snap in the same direction the wind is blowing will surely send your ball into another zip code. That's our job as golfers to assess the conditions we face on a given shot and choose the best shot type. For 25mph crosswind left to right, you obviously want to aim left a fair amount AND choose a hook swing to counter the wind's effects. Also, you can club down 2-3 clubs -- Instead of choosing a PW for a 135 yd shot in a crosswind, hitting an 8 iron at say 75% will be less affected by the wind. Of course, the challenge is to practice those kinds of shots.
To me, that's the beauty of tough conditions --- you can't just look at a chart and dial in a perfect swing; you have to think your way around the course and you are challenged on every shot.

"The idea that you have a 500+ yard par 4 with a 32 mph wind in the player's face is silly. Best I could do was 239 off the tee and still had 274 to the flag stick. Can't get home in regulation. Why can't these tournaments just be tough stuff instead of impossible stuff?"

Alright, think of it this way: 1. Each golfer faces the exact same tee shot that you do, so that means NO ONE will get home in regulation, right? Your job is to take what the course is giving you and finish the hole in the least number of strokes. For the hole you described, we would all be hitting the green in 3 and hoping for a par chance if we played our shots decently. 2. For each hole like this, there are 350 yard holes that you normally would hit in two, but with a tailwind you can now reach with a drive if hit perfectly. It all balances out.
When I set this tourney, I always set the wind direction for the last two rounds at the exact opposite direction of the first two. So the hole you described above will be Driver/PW on the next round.

"Don't take my comments personal. This tournament is fun to play. Ordinary players will never be able to score worth a crap, but you don't want us to anyway. Thanks for hosting."

Hey, I appreciate your comments, and I don't take your opinions personal... we are all trying to make these games more fun for more people so the more opinions, the better. While each tourney is not for everyone, we do our best to appeal to more players.
My philosophy about this Tough Stuff tourney is kinda like the US Open: It will be hard and even unfair at times, but everyone has the same conditions to think through. After a brutal first-round with no one under par at the 1974 US Open at Winged Foot, Sandy Tatum said: "We're not trying to humiliate the best players in the world. We're simply trying to identify who they are."

Good luck!

[Riddler]

Great explanation Tony. My only grip would be picking golf courses with lots of water shots. Maybe tone down the wind a touch when using these courses. Round 4 was tough but then again it is called...well you know.

[whattashot]

Flop7wood, my reply:

"Olkay, TBone, you asked for opinions. Here is mine. Your comment above regarding "a fair amount of risk" is Polyanna personified. Every single shot in this tournament is fraught with a crapload of risk. Geez What were you thinking?"

Flop7wood, thanks for your opinion: What I was thinking is that this tourney, like GolferDee said above, is called Tough Stuff for a reason. PGLS offers many tournaments with varying degrees of difficulty ranging from Calm, 10 stimp, easy pins, member's tees on one extreme, and Tough Stuff on the other extreme. That way, there is something for everyone.

" The final two rounds were more of the same in these conditions. If you play the wind and then hit a snap, the wind makes no change to the shot. If you play the wind and miss a snap, there is absolutely no way one knows where its going. Just a crapshoot."

A few points on this: 1. Even with a perfect snap, high winds absolutely affect the direction and/or trajectory of a shot, but I agree that missing a snap in the same direction the wind is blowing will surely send your ball into another zip code. That's our job as golfers to assess the conditions we face on a given shot and choose the best shot type. For 25mph crosswind left to right, you obviously want to aim left a fair amount AND choose a hook swing to counter the wind's effects. Also, you can club down 2-3 clubs -- Instead of choosing a PW for a 135 yd shot in a crosswind, hitting an 8 iron at say 75% will be less affected by the wind. Of course, the challenge is to practice those kinds of shots.
To me, that's the beauty of tough conditions --- you can't just look at a chart and dial in a perfect swing; you have to think your way around the course and you are challenged on every shot.

"The idea that you have a 500+ yard par 4 with a 32 mph wind in the player's face is silly. Best I could do was 239 off the tee and still had 274 to the flag stick. Can't get home in regulation. Why can't these tournaments just be tough stuff instead of impossible stuff?"

Alright, think of it this way: 1. Each golfer faces the exact same tee shot that you do, so that means NO ONE will get home in regulation, right? Your job is to take what the course is giving you and finish the hole in the least number of strokes. For the hole you described, we would all be hitting the green in 3 and hoping for a par chance if we played our shots decently. 2. For each hole like this, there are 350 yard holes that you normally would hit in two, but with a tailwind you can now reach with a drive if hit perfectly. It all balances out.
When I set this tourney, I always set the wind direction for the last two rounds at the exact opposite direction of the first two. So the hole you described above will be Driver/PW on the next round.

"Don't take my comments personal. This tournament is fun to play. Ordinary players will never be able to score worth a crap, but you don't want us to anyway. Thanks for hosting."

Hey, I appreciate your comments, and I don't take your opinions personal... we are all trying to make these games more fun for more people so the more opinions, the better. While each tourney is not for everyone, we do our best to appeal to more players.
My philosophy about this Tough Stuff tourney is kinda like the US Open: It will be hard and even unfair at times, but everyone has the same conditions to think through. After a brutal first-round with no one under par at the 1974 US Open at Winged Foot, Sandy Tatum said: "We're not trying to humiliate the best players in the world. We're simply trying to identify who they are."

Good luck!

Well said. A different perspective to consider. I'm still going to play that tourney.

[TBone]

Great explanation Tony. My only grip would be picking golf courses with lots of water shots. Maybe tone down the wind a touch when using these courses. Round 4 was tough but then again it is called...well you know.

Riddler, I hear you. I wrestle with the water myself and shot a cool 41 that last round with 2 or 3 water balls. I guess it comes down to risk/reward and how we choose to play a hole, aggressively or safely. I usually go balls-out and risk the water, but a few times when I have a 30 MPH crosswind, I chose to lay up short and play for par. Sometimes that pays off.
As for choosing courses with the water in mind, I can't say that I consider that to be honest. I know when I tee it up, it pisses me off to see a lot of water but when setting it, not so much!

I will say the #1 thing I hate is that PG was set up to have wind affect chip shots much more than real life, I think. But, we all play the same conditions so....