PGLS Fair Play Statement

[Affo]

No I can't. Notice the player aim does not change while i'm clicking in the top cam?

I use the top cam to get a rough distance to rough or bunkers or how far to front of green, then have to use the normal screen to aim and look for markers.

For info, really struggled last 3 rounds to hit fairways and greens in this particular comps when winds got up and wind kept gusting and changing direction.

Hope that sheds some light.

[IanD]

Affo... it is good to see you have the same BUG as I do.... the GRID coming on all the time after the first green. It seems a few are not experiencing this...but several are.

As for anything else gained from these videos.... I notice your occasional miss on snap, and have to say, I do feel on Pro for myself, I get more penalty. I say i get... it feels like I get more lol. On Tour Pro, I often thought the penalty snap miss would be greater. Not inferring anything by this, just curious to see if I should revisit it myself..

[Affo]

Hi Ian,

No bug, my choice to have grid on.

Interesting what you noticed about snap penalty. The times we were set as Pro in the PGLS Open, I often noted that the penalty, especially from the tee was more than I anticipated, more the sideways penalty, not distance. I remember a couple of updates ago when they changed the penalties around the green they said they lessened the long game penalty (wrongly in my opinion) to sort of offset this, maybe that is where the comparison is off?

[MiMiC]

I'm unsure.... are there scores and issues relating to swing styles that have been suspicious?

We felt that particularly low scoring in a few rounds in one recent event in particular, The Masters, warranted further investigation and a re-appraisal of what data we collect

Can I ask what data is taken, and how it can be used to display what is believed to be 'not' face value?

The API data we receive contains a specific item of data which works in the following way. A swing taken which has no offset variance or no path-to-plane variance (both of which are elements found in movement swings) returns a positive number, whilst ones which do have a variance return a smaller negative number. The proportion of those two would cancel each other out if one in five shots was hit perfect. If more than that number is hit perfect, the recorded number increases in the positive range over the course of play, and if all shots are not 'perfect' the number increases over the course of play in a negative fashion. This is the same system that Perfect Parallel uses to create the 'Courtesy Message' which comes up if you have a controller or Mouse set up which tells you that the game is not being played as the developers intended.

As a links player for many years I played 3C and we had issues there with RTS as edging was always a problem but the main reason I went back to 3C for tournaments is that it is cheat proof as you either hit 6:00 or you don't and that's cut and dry.

Not quite as cut and dried as you would believe. As has been said about, the measurements we are taking all centre around movement swings. There is no data given for click swings, because it does not produce an offset or path-to-plane in the same way. We just receive a zero for every swing. That is not to say that the click swing cannot be exploited, because it can be, and at present we would have no way of telling. We are making representations to the developers to come up with something which will allow us to ensure a particular exploit is not being used.

the good news is that almost all do it the legitimate way here.

Absolutely correct. From what we have seen we do not have a major problem with the game being exploited.

After all these years I stopped trying to be at the top of the leaderboard; I have no desire to take the time to "super concentrate" only to be beaten by someone who will ALWAYS have a score 2 to 4 strokes better than my best effort. Meaning, they learned not to use their exploit to show-off too much by shooting 15 to 20 strokes lower than all the other players.

However good a player you may think you are, there will most likely always be others who are going to have the beating of you. You cannot and will not be able to make accusations against players on PGLS without further action when you quite simply are just trotting out your own pet prejudices and have absolutely no supporting evidence.

People who know how to program (I don't) can modify their Swing Controller or Mouse however they please. Or find some other exploit.

All swings are exploitable, including the click swing. Other swings we can monitor to some extent... click we cannot at present, but we hope to if we can get the tools to do so.

I'd love to see my Swing/Snap data per hole and correlate that to my actual score for those holes. It would give better ideas of how well my club selection was, as well as seeing data relating to each club itself.

Unfortunately, not the sort of data which we have access to, but certainly something which I think Perfect Parallel would be well-advised to include in future statistical breakdown. If they began to record that data, we would certainly look at making use of it, even if only for statistical purposes. Past games have broken stats down to show how effective each club is, and it would be an easy enough thing to take if a full stats profile was part of Perfect Golf's offering.

[IanD]

Much appreciated in the breakdown above...

It is nice/curious to know how only an indicator of the Swing API data is returned, by a positive and negative value. I assume you have the data available for every swing...or is it simply a final value based over the holes played?
It almost sounds as if the 3C Swing is the most likely abused, in how it cannot be detected as often as motion swings, in terms of values returned. Does that sound right, or is it an unfair comparison?

As always, your work here is invaluable, so I do appreciate the answers you have given.

[MiMiC]

The swings which return data are drives and approaches - the short game is not monitored.

Data is returned per hole, and is a cumulative total which is presented at the end of a round.

I would not draw the assertion that 3-Click is being abused. My outline above is purely stating that it is the only swing which we can not currently get data for. We are currently in discussions as to how we can isolate the information we need to do so, which will require work by the developers to produce. I am pleased to say that our initial enquiries have been well received, but the solution we need to find will take some work to produce.

[maxie]

Guys i play tournaments usually ,well most when sober try to focus and have a good round.I do ok not great not bad either but when im on for a fun 9 holer on a saturday night after a few jars im pretty useless but still fun.I played a guy not sure of his id was playing gash like beggy playing pool in the movie trainspotting was rubbish.He asked how i played so well in the tournament and why i was so crap in this game.I can understand where he was comming from but dont know how i ended up after another few games/beers

[Crusher]

However good a player you may think you are, there will most likely always be others who are going to have the beating of you. You cannot and will not be able to make accusations against players on PGLS without further action when you quite simply are just trotting out your own pet prejudices and have absolutely no supporting evidence.

I could not agree with you more. Anyone being specific by mentioning names of players they think are cheaters (any forum supporting JNPG) should be banned from the site. Talking about the reality of exploits is one thing; pointing fingers at a specific player in public forums is completely wrong and creates an acrimonious community.

[terbal]

However good a player you may think you are, there will most likely always be others who are going to have the beating of you. You cannot and will not be able to make accusations against players on PGLS without further action when you quite simply are just trotting out your own pet prejudices and have absolutely no supporting evidence.

I could not agree with you more. Anyone being specific by mentioning names of players they think are cheaters (any forum supporting JNPG) should be banned from the site. Talking about the reality of exploits is one thing; pointing fingers at a specific player in public forums is completely wrong and creates an acrimonious community.

[Makosha]

If anyone believes that people are cheating then either confront them through the moderators or shut up about it.
If you think they are cheating then don't play them, if they upset you then don't play them.
Certain players are making sweeping statements about their beliefs with substantiating them - that is wrong.
They should speak up or keep their views to themselves.
Yes I know what I just said so I will say who I mean - Lee - Keep your views to yourself or back them up.