Scoring becoming ridiculous

[Sikkum]

GOLF: - about the only game where you are playing against yourself!

[DoGgs]

Sorry i have to step in here, you may class me as one of the higher scorers, not always as i can have some mediocre rounds from time to time. Now when i play i use an official xbox 360 controller using the caliber ball, the reason i use the caliber is because i am more consistent with woods and long irons, not so much with the avant ball, anything in wedge range then either ball is good for me. I have done some testing here with mike and mark using my controller along with a steam controller i own. We wanted to see if they brought about the anti cheat message, neither controller did but the steam controller was getting close to triggering it and is much easier to hit straights with, the xbox controller performed as it should. Now i could legit use the steam controller to play my tour rounds but here is why i do not... The steam controller axis is less sensitive than the xbox official, this will help to keep shots on line but when it comes to playing shots that require partial power they are pretty much useless. Flopping from fw or bunker is difficult to achieve when needing something like 70% etc, the reason for this is because the axis is less granular it will reach 100% power very quick once you start the swing and you have little to no time to hit your preferred mark, this also applies to approach shots where i may need to hit something like 90% with a 7I the 8I not be quite enough and a full 7I being too much. With a steam controller you can pretty much forget it, you will be hitting 100% or higher but with the xbox pad being more granular this 90% is achievable, shots like these are the cornerstone of my play, i rely on them greatly.
Now if you are playing with a zero axis cheap controller you will hit straight lines every time without fail, you will also find it near impossible to hit 100% you will more likely be hitting 122% with every club. Now if you play a course and you manage to have approach shots that fall in club range the straight shooting pad may give you the edge, but this game is not really like that all the time, mostly you will leave shots where you need to take a little off to get in close, these are my scoring shots, especially with wedges, chips and pitches. I used to bemoan 3rd party controller players because of their straight shooting pads, but i know from testing the steam controller it is not quite the advantage it first appears, to be a good player you have to master the feel shots, running that chip shot up to the hole from 70ft, playing that partial pitch so you don't run on past and playing a partial wedge to remove some of the back spin etc, all these shots are useless with a zero axis pad, you need to hope you fall into the perfect range every time to score well, sometimes you will and sometimes you won't. The other drawback of playing with a zero axis pad? IT'S BORING! there is no satisfaction to be had whatsoever, i seriously would not play the game if i had to use one.
The xbox pad is perfect, the control it gives is second to none, kudos to PP for creating such a granular and hard to master swing, its brilliant. Every day i play i have to visit the range to see how my swing is holding up and get it back in line before playing my tour rounds. The information i get helps me adjust not only the way i swing using the controller stick, it also dictates how i hold the controller in my lap, believe it or not the way you hold the pad is prob more important than how you swing with it, i hold it with a slight tilt to the right and very nearly upright in my hand. Now if i tilt it to the left or tilt it forward i am going to see different results to my swing plane even though i am swinging with the stick pretty much the same as before. Now these tilts with the controller in hand are minor it may not tilt more than half an inch to an inch but the effect on the shot can be huge. Once i have hit a few shots in the range i can establish a position that gives me what i'm looking for, i then go into my tour round and play. If i am lucky i will maintain this consistency for the full round, but most of the time i will still hit a few loose ones here and there, especially with long irons, the key is how you get it back on track for the next shot, very slight adjustments to the holding of the pad and the swing itself can either bring it back in line or make it worse and when i score well i tend to either keep it consistent all round or get it back on track straight away after a loose shot. If you read all this, then well done and thank you, this is a honest explanation of legitimate controller play Vs a 3rd party zero axis pad from a player (me) that has invested plenty of time and practice trying to nail the swing to a consistent level...its far from easy.

[MiMiC]

Very good to see into the thoughts and processes of a player who uses a controller.

Worth also noting the incredible hours Kenny has put into his play, as well as his course creations, and how he was very ready since the beginning of Perfect Golf's release to give insight into areas of play that others may find a struggle, such as his suggestions to change the perspectives to better judge putting distances, which are a major cause of players leaking shots with the controller swing.

Further to Kenny's point about our use of data to identify high-tolerance axis with controller swings, that still is in place and I am happy to report that no-one is exploiting in that area. As part of testing, PGLS purchased the full range of different controllers used by players on our Tour, as well as those not used but which we had reveived reports about their possible forgiveness. I can tell you now, after having tested them, that whilst there are differences in how they play, no controller is a guarantee of low scoring and to use one effectively takes a lot of skill. Also remember that if a player was hosing the field every week, they would have been moved up through the skill levels and are playing at a very high level with its accompanying rise in difficulty in execution.

[BlackCat0315]

There will never be a true sim golf game for obvious reasons.

What we must learn from this game and others currently around or from the past is that players get good. Not just in terms of their play but also in terms of their thinking and how to make the most of everything within the rules of the game.

While we use a mouse or a controller, human error can be minimised and higher scoring is inevitable.

[Greensboronclion]

I use the Xbox 360 controller myself and find it to be a good challenge just as a good gaming mouse and like DoGgs find that it is wonderful for this game and wish it was the only controller that could be used. Unfortunately non axis controllers like the Speedlink and others are out there and the same with cheap non axis mice that hit everything straight and there is not much we can do about it. At this point scoring is ridiculous and getting to the point of silly ridiculous real quick and to me the only solution is to use full handicap for every event. I didn't even play the last round of this week's PGA event as there didn't seem to be much reason to IMHO. Maybe I will take a couple months off and come back and tear it up as that seems to be the trick. Lol.

[MiMiC]

For the score you seem to be doubting, a controller was not used... it was motionswing.

We also have full view of whether anything non-axis is used, if any macro is used which created the same swing each time, and exactly what equipment is used, along with the time taken to play a round.

[DoGgs]

I'm also left wondering if this is legit, i would say it is possible to score that low but there has to be some level of forgiveness in the control method used at tour pro level if its achieved almost every round surely. motion swing can be manipulated in many ways...edging, poor mice/mouse, the method can even be mapped to a controller's sticks. If its a poor mouse then the player may well be totally unaware of the situation. To rip up a course like we have seen, and record multiple eagles requires pin seeking with every shot, there is prob no deviation from chosen line whatsoever, this in itself raises doubts, as we are not robots and to replicate it almost every time at tour pro level seems very unlikely to me, saying that you have to give people the benefit of the doubt and get on with it..or not. To also come back after months out and pick up like it was yesterday also points to some form of forgiveness, i had two months off because of work commitments and it took me 3 weeks to get back in a groove with controller. One thing i know about people who straight shoot in golf games...they get bored and quit for long periods because they know its not quite the same as the satisfaction of learning and improving a method with the appropriate equipment etc. I would love to see video of the play, its gonna be what i have said in terms of pin seeking but would still be interesting. I broadcast quite a lot, and to see my play its clear i rarely hit on plane, i just learned to work with my tendency to fade more often than not.

[Greensboronclion]

I knew it was either MS or RTSM that's why I included mouse in my post. I am pretty good with the MS swing and the truth be told it might be my best way of playing but it kills my shoulder so I play controller but also know that the mouse can be manipulated and there is no way even the best player can hit the ball that straight for four rounds when they haven't played for a few months and even playing all the time its impossible without an aid of some sort. A cheap mouse and an edge will allow you to do this and that might offend some but I am sorry I cant except that score as legit unless it was a robot. If I were to record one of my rounds and I view myself as a pretty fair player in 18 holes you would be hard pressed to see me hit one shot straight as I have a natural hook with my xbox360 and with MS I have more shots that are pulled and pushed due to the timing built in to the swing and dang near impossible to be at .24 one hundred percent of the time. Again to me something is fishy here with this score.

[MiMiC]

As posted above... he rarely hits a straight shot... we have visibility of the proportion of them he does hit.

Edging can help to cure in-to-out or out-to-in and offsets... we have visibility of both, showing the spin axis of the ball in flight.

A controller will show as controller... it cannot be mucked about with in game.

A poor mouse will return high positive figures on straight shots... the player in question returns high negatives.

As you hopefully know, I am also a Tour Pro Motionswing player, and believe me, if I was seeing anything which rang alarm bells past the score (as in amongst our data), then I would be the first to say something.

We will discuss if we can do something with obtaining recordings, or whether we want to add more complexity to play at PGLS. Back in the mists of time, when we had cards signed by an opponent where everyone played all rounds in the presence of another in multiplayer, we had around 10 players competing. It seemed either beyond most players, or meant they went somewhere that didn't have such a system.

The problem is, there is no API control to do so, and how many will forget and then be told they have been DQ'd? You can't have players shooting, forgetting, and then going back for a second try!

[Greensboronclion]

I agree with your whole post and there really is nothing you can do to control it and you guys do a great job as it is with all that you have to do. The simple solution is that all tours be handicapped and then if you are shooting that kind of score you deduct the handicap and it will all even out. I do know this that if that type scoring becomes the norm it will thin the fields real quick and we don't want that. This is my last post on the issue as I stated what I wanted to state and am good and thanks again for what you guys do here setting up events and running the site.