Weekly ongoing Competitions

[Teaghee]

Being relatively new to PGLS I quickly learned that the Competition leader board is dominated by scores that can only be achieved by impossibly great play - or cheating. That's ok because there is nothing of value to be gained or lost except perhaps some misguided ego's.
What does irk me though, and I DO appreciate the work that goes into running the site and competitions, is the set up of competitions over the last 3 weeks.
The difficulty settings border on the sadistic making it almost impossible for Hackers such as I to play a decent round ( +4 or 5 being decent to me).
Now it may well be that who ever is setting the courses is attempting to make it more difficult for the extremely low scorers but we all know that "they" will score low by whatever method no matter how difficult the setting.

All that the recent settings have achieved are a collection of non completed rounds or double didgit + scores and failure to complete the required number of rounds. There is absolutely NO fun in that. That, and perhaps a few or more members of PGLS deciding it's not worth playing any more.

As I said, I do appreciate all the effort from Mark and the mods to make the site an enjoyable experience but I honestly think that consideration should be given to everyone in setting the difficulty (including pin positions) in competitions.
I for one, although I am sure I am not alone, have lost complete interest in "competitions" mainly because it is only a competition between the same 4-5 names every week. The rest of us just make up the field.

[cubbies645]

Way off base m8, make it to easy and not a challenge, for me there goes the fun, as in life you have to work and practice to perfect the top plateau of a higher skill set, once achieved will reward yourself as you climb another mountain. The work they do on this site is amazing and spot on, i believe. When i first started it was on pro level master the hardest and the rest will come a tab bit smoother, I really dont believe there is a high level of cheating going on just great play, when u 3 click for 20 years u get good m8, as tiger woods game broke us in, "sort of speak" . My opinion is for only 2 levels to be had pro and tour pro.. Hats off to Mark and MIke g8 jobb keep up the g8 work.... Be nice ")

[Greensboronclion]

I have to agree with Cubbies as 3C has been around forever and the fact is people get good at it after all these years and really not a cheating thing. You will have the same people at the top as long as there is a 3C level and that is just the way it is and will be. If you really want a more competitive event play the Classic which uses handicap and I really wish it would become a weekly vs bi weekly event as there seems to be a different winner there every week. As for the conditions I sure hope they don't get to easy as half the fun is taking on a tough setup and making it to easy is just not fun imho.

[Affo]

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3 extra comps designed specifically to add something for those who may not be at the top end of the leaderboards. Your scores are compared to those around you in your "leagues" rather than trying to get near the top of a competition. All you have to do is continue playing in the events you like, see if you can win some fixtures.

[tlvx]

The difficulty settings border on the sadistic making it almost impossible for Hackers such as I to play a decent round ( +4 or 5 being decent to me).
Now it may well be that who ever is setting the courses is attempting to make it more difficult for the extremely low scorers but we all know that "they" will score low by whatever method no matter how difficult the setting.

I'm not sure to what tournaments you are referring. Anecdotally, after being on PGLS a few months, I've only seen the setups get easier... which is also why you don't see me tee it up very often.

For example, look at this weeks PGA 9 and PGA 18. Plenty of soft greens and calm winds. Only a few rounds of anything but.

I don't know what more you want. In my opinion, Majors should be stimp 13 or 14 every round, with at least Breezy or Strong Breeze. Throw in Difficult pins for at least a few rounds, and always Championship tees, and you have some really challenging Major Championship golf. But, it's not quite, "sadistic," until the wind is turned up to Windy or Stormy, with hard and fast greens.

Regular Tour events should be stimp 10-12, to mirror their PGA Tour counterparts... with more stimp 11 and 12, than stimp 10.

It wouldn't hurt to have a weekly shootout event, with calm winds and soft greens... but honestly, I see plenty of that already being setup here at PGLS.

The only "sadistic" event at PGLS is the "Tough Stuff," which is designed to be precisely that. But, believe me, if you play Stormy a few times, you start giving up less and less, and playing hard to the end more and more. It's very rewarding surviving seemingly insurmountable conditions. It makes you play more by feel, and completely re-evaluate the idea of "going for it" every time. There's something to be said for playing to the middle of the green. Aiming at that sucker pin is rarely a good idea, certainly not with higher stimp and a bit of a breeze.

Nevertheless, please let us know which events you've noticed to be the "sadistic" ones, so that I can finally find something to play.

Edit: Okay OP, now I see what you mean. The Stableford is setup pretty tough this week, compared to how soft and calm it normally is. As well as, the monthly PGLS Open, with Strong and Gusty conditions. That's definitely a change. I'm glad you pointed it out, actually. I like that kind of thing. But, I got tired of scrolling through all of the benign settings, so I didn't even think to look - until you said something.

But, I think PGLS is checking the weather and setting up the events as close as possible to what the actual conditions would be. At least, in theory.

But, again, I found at least 2 events - the 9 and 18, where the conditions were a bit too straightforward for my liking. So, guys that like calm conditions would surely feast on that.

Ultimately, if some guys wanted all of the tournaments to always have calm conditions, a lot of other guys would tire of that, too.

Overall, I think the PGLS Tour setup balance has been fair. Some of us would like it slightly tougher, and some of us would like it slightly easier. I think that's right near the money of where it should be.

[tlvx]

Being relatively new to PGLS I quickly learned that the Competition leader board is dominated by scores that can only be achieved by impossibly great play - or cheating.

Here's a tool that might help get your putting speed down. http://golfers.africamotion.net/t88-swi ... -stimp-map

I'm not affiliated with the GW group, but they invited me and I found that little gem of a putting chart on their forum.

I agree that a lot of guys probably push the boundaries of what's considered acceptable gameplay. But, take that one chart, and multiply it by 10, and you'll just begin to scratch the mathematical surface of how precise you can actually play this game.

I've been charting several club power distances of every beta, since before beta 1.2, when the driver only went 287 yards.

You really have to practice every single conceivable shot, in both the long game and the short game, to become consistent at the game... and then actually have any idea of what a given shot does - when you need to call upon it.

Since early access, I've been able to discover and report bugs and physics anomalies by charting club distances. The power to distance ratio in this game is not linear... not even terrestrial. (read: It's neither Arcade nor Sim) So, common sense doesn't always work very well, in this game.

At times, some of the development team has taken the reporting of these discoveries a bit too personally. Perhaps, I've not mastered the art of forum tact, as much as video golf. But, if they're going to claim to have an accurate simulation of golf physics, "within 1 percent," than how can, say - higher lofted clubs, roll out moreso than longer clubs, hit with the same power? - They've only been able to answer that question with, "developer license," and Not physics.

The truth of the matter is that this game was deliberately designed to prefer sadists to casual players... so that no one could play laser golf, like golf games of yore. With each update, the developers would try to make things that seemed perfectly realistic - harder, and oftentimes impossible to judge with precision... to keep the scoring down. So, it's more of a mantra to satisfy the sim purist, than an actual indicator of what would happen on a course, or even in a golf simulator - kind of thing.

Nevertheless, once you have charted your full golf bag, long game, short game, putting; including chip, flop, and splash shots... taking note of various hardness and stimps... then we can participate in table talk. But, pull up a chair, first... because it will take a while, and it won't make a whole lot of sense.

Nothing around here is realistic. "Knowing," is a purely a matter of learning this game's own brand of fuzzy math, and then applying it to the best of your ability. Then you can begin to score, given the conditions, of course.

One more tip. The rough power loss percentages are exact. (Only saving grace of being able to play this game, and some guys still want to get rid of that!) Nevertheless, if you are 100 yards away, and the rough says, "10%," you will need to hit roughly 111 yards, or 110 yards, whichever you prefer, although keep in mind that the ball rolls more out of the rough, so you can usually err on the low side, so long as you cover the front of the green, taking false fronts into account. The idea is to begin to get a picture of how the ball will finish, given the conditions. So, you need to take carry and total yardage into account, and then Bryson Dechambeau the green, before ever setting foot on it. - Try to imagine the best place to miss to have a hole high or slightly uphill, straightish putt.

Before hitting into the green, press F2 or F3, or F5 (free cam) to look forward and see your landing area. Feel free to scroll over the surface with the BLI indicator, taking note of the changes in elevation; so that you know whether you'll need to club up or down... assuming you know what your clubs do at approx. 85% through 122%, with an emphasis on 95% to the 105% range. But, knowing when you need 85% or 122% is crucial to understanding the conceivable outcomes in the game.

Don't just take the club the game gives you and hit it. Otherwise, the conditions, or the course layout, or both, will catch you napping.

For instance, a 122% wedge will garner unrealistic backspin zip on the green, upwards of 30 to 60 feet of zip, into any gradient, including mild. But, at 85%, that same wedge has equally unrealistic forward kick, almost akin to a long iron. Discovering the nuances within these quirks will allow you to review the overhead map, prior to teeing off, and tee off into a decent yardage for a club; preferably for a PW, or 9-Iron approach... both of which are well controlled clubs, as far as, descent, skid and landing.

The minute you just start gripping and ripping like big John, you start to enter what's called experimental golf; trying to figure out how to hit a 78% wedge, and get it to cover and stop. It's a fool's errand, in this game. Because, wedges don't perform like real wedges. They are rubbish under say 90%. There's really no such thing as a three-quarter shot - in this game... at least not one that works like it should. So, you have to play more towards the upper end of full clubs to control your distances, because otherwise there is far too much roll in this game.

The caveat to that is that above 100% the mishits start to get very penal, particularly on Tour Pro. So, knowing when you absolutely need to rip one to carry an obstacle, versus playing a comfortable 95-100% shot, safe into the heart of the green - is what it's all about.

Instead of just playing away, from the very tee, try setting up your shots ahead of time, almost like you would play chess, favoring the best angle in to the pin, from the fairway, and the best yardage of attack for a soft but not fiery landing... and you will begin to score well.

Warning, this strategy involves, "laying-up," a good portion of holes that aren't pushing 475 yards, or aren't par 5's. The only strategy where just hitting it as far as you can works, is on par 5's, that are reachable in two. To wit: It's better to try to reach par 5's in two, in all cases, because even if you miss the fairway on a par 5, it is no worse than laying up off the tee, to begin with. So, better to try, statistically.

However on a 375 yard par 4, there is no advantage to having a wedge that will spin 10 yards in reverse when in lands, only if you're within 5 yards of its peak spin... versus possibly rolling forward 10 yards, if you're in-between clubs.

The key is to take control of your destiny, and try for a more realistic approach yardage, where you can get a more predictable result.

Taking this a step further, if you're striping it out there in a given round... now you can look at the flattest part of the fairway, and start to play for that; to, again, get more predictability over the favor of your next shot. A flat lie is always better than a lie that kicks up-down-left-right, and everything in between. A severe upslope for example, may require a few more yards, or several. It's hard to judge. Conversely, downslopes kick harder forward.

There's just so much out there, to "try" for, to play better. That's not saying that one can always hit their target. No one is perfect, even if someone were playing with a straight-hitting controller, they couldn't possibly predict a shot result 100% of the time.

But, having a general landing area, where you think you can gain more control over your next shot, is the whole idea. - And then, knowing the worst case miss area, and splitting the difference. Just think: Tiger Woods hardly ever fired at the flag, and has 79 Tour victories. The key is simply in missing better than everyone else.

That's it for now. Cheers and stripe em out there.

[Greensboronclion]

This is why I have just about quit playing 3C as its about hitting 12 and 6 o'clock and reading charts. The truth is this game was made to be played RTS and that is a way you cant count dots and hit a number. Don't get me wrong as I applaud those who are very good at it and the best players are there for a reason and that reason is they have been doing it forever and are very good but the game at RTS is just a different animal altogether. Yes the controller was skewed but the mouse at RTS isn't and if you want a real challenge try it. Just my 2 cents.

[Sikkum]

This is why I have just about quit playing 3C as its about hitting 12 and 6 o'clock and reading charts. The truth is this game was made to be played RTS and that is a way you cant count dots and hit a number. Don't get me wrong as I applaud those who are very good at it and the best players are there for a reason and that reason is they have been doing it forever and are very good but the game at RTS is just a different animal altogether. Yes the controller was skewed but the mouse at RTS isn't and if you want a real challenge try it. Just my 2 cents.

In that case sir, I suggest you try 3Click at Tour Pro level and tell me how easy it is.
We dont have 2cents, so thats my 5 cents.

Sikkum

[Greensboronclion]

Sikkum I was playing 3C at TP and scoring very well and many top 10 if you go back and look and I am not bashing 3C as I have played it since the inception of Links. What I am saying is that for me it has become boring after 20 plus years and I need something different and as far as difficulty its no contest as I can shoot 60 at TP 3C and barely can break 80 at RTSM Pro. In the end how we play is up the individual and I will play with all as its just a game that we all enjoy but for sheer new experience playing RTSM has really made me appreciate the game even more. Its all good my friend and as long as we keep playing that is all that matters.

[Gordo]

I would love to use the real time swing, but even when slowing my mouse down to almost a crawl and setting the mouse sensitivity to max 4.0, 20 foot putts can only be managed like a tap in. So, sometimes the 3C is the only recourse even though I had preferred True Swing in Tiger Woods 08 (free swinging of course) in expert mode, predominantly.