Player Levels

[Mwh65]

We have 2 options regarding what level a player will play at in the up and coming PGLS Tours. As we have 4 weeks before it starts we are putting these options out to a Poll to see what players would prefer.

This Poll will run for 1 week and you can change your vote.

Existing PGLS Level
Use a players existing PGLS Level used across PGLS in all tournies.

Choose your own level
Let the players decide which level to play at in the PGLS Tours.

[bobfletch]

I think players need to know why they are being asked to vote about playing levels.

When I originally proposed the Tours concept, the main aim was to try to ensure we had more competition and more event winners. The intention was to let players choose the playing level that would let them compete the best.

Any Tour Pro's thinking of dropping down to Pro or even Amateur level must be aware that their earnings will suffer as a result. This is due to the new 3-tier earnings system which will be in place on the tours. In simple terms, players with a higher playing level will earn higher points. For instance, if a Tour Pro, a Pro and an Amateur all finish an event level with each other, then the Tour Pro will receive more points than the Pro, and the Pro will receive more points than the Amateur.

Some players, if their scores are good enough, will be 'forced up' a level by the current PGLS system, and they will probably not score as well or enjoy the game as much as they did playing on their previous level. If players are allowed to choose their levels, this will not happen. They will continue to score well and their enjoyment will not suffer. They will also stand more chance of competing.

This vote is happening because there is a difference of opinion as to which option should be implemented.

Now you are fully in the picture.

[Seasider47]

When allowing players to drop down levels you are not considering players who are already in that Level. A player that has moved up a level has done so because he has scored at least 80% better than other players of that Level, So that allowing him to move back down into a level he has already proved that he is better at is really unfair on others who have not reached the stage where he can be clearly moved up a level.

This would lead to a two tier level which is what we had before the change of scoring. Take Amateur, We used to have 8-10 players in that level who's score was maybe in the region of between -20 to -30 at the end of a weekly tour, and we had another group who were between +5 to -10.

Now there is just one group of players all scoring pretty close together and weekly competitions are very tight. But if we let players choose the level they wish to play in you will be back to a two tier group again which will hold back players. Thats why I oppose the freedom of choice.

Another point to consider, In the past year there are two types of players who have been moved up. First the player who gets stuck in and trys to improve is game and in some cases have even moved up to another level or even gone on to become a good player at there new level, I concieve that this is not always possible. Then there is the second type of player who says to himself I dont like this and stops playing in tours and now want to move back and again dominate that level.
This would only cause resentment and the loss of other players. So maybe we should leave it as it is.

[Greensboronclion]

I picked to choose your own level as I prefer Pro but mainly as I don't want to vote for something that might limit play by others. If a player wants to play Pro and is TP at regular events I have no problem with that as the points will reflect it. For myself I am Pro right now but if promoted to TP for other events I would do the same here as no sense playing two levels. It's about choices and that's always good.

[davefv92c]

no matter what you do the same few people are always going to be at the top of the leaderboards
that is just how it is and will never change. i think being able to pick your own level is just going to open a can of worms that is much better left alone.
as people wanting to sandbag will be doing it and it may incite others. as it is now we all know right where we stand at the end of the day, and it is what it is.

[bobfletch]

When allowing players to drop down levels you are not considering players who are already in that Level. A player that has moved up a level has done so because he has scored at least 80% better than other players of that Level, So that allowing him to move back down into a level he has already proved that he is better at is really unfair on others who have not reached the stage where he can be clearly moved up a level.

Well Paul, the only thing you appear to be concerned about is whether a player deserves to be at a certain level or not. That's quite an unhealthy obsession, and you're completely ignoring what we are trying to achieve here - more competition and more enjoyment. I couldn't care less what level a player chooses - if he opts to choose one that allows him to compete and enjoy the game, then great!!

When it was initially announced that players would be able to choose their level I believe you were in a panic, fearing that suddenly your Amateur level would become flooded with Tour Pro's trying to gain an advantage - which would never happen because of their consequent reduced earnings thanks to the new 3-tier earnings system. I know for a fact that you asked at least one Tour Pro if he was going to drop to Amateur - absurd!!

All I am saying is, let a player choose his/her own playing level to maximise their own personal enjoyment and to allow them to subsequently compete. There's nothing sinister in that!! And I'm convinced that it's the way to go...

[Affo]

I believe a vote is a fair way to go, discussions have been had and a way forward couldn't be agreed on, let's see what people would like.

Just should everyone get to vote, or should it only be the people who have shown an interest and intention to play on the Tours? You could a lot of vote (either way) which could distort the poll from people who just play a few rounds and won't be using the new PGLS Tours.

[Mwh65]

That isn't possible Andy.

The Poll is open to all players at PGLS whether active or not.

[Biffa]

When allowing players to drop down levels you are not considering players who are already in that Level

Of course we have, every other events on this site are level based, so you have your way on that Paul, these new tours will have no effect on them tournies and stats at all nothing changes there, this was to offer an alternative to them events for members of this site who want to play at a level of their choosing not whats dictated to them. And why are you assuming everyone wants to move down a level? I have spoke to some who would like to try a level up without it being permanent across all events.

no matter what you do the same few people are always going to be at the top of the leaderboards
that is just how it is and will never change.

Then whats the problem with giving PGLS members a choice, a different alternative to the PGA9, PGA18, etc where you have to play a level dictated to you. If your happy with PGA 9 ,18 ETC rules then continue playing them they will NOT be effected by this new tour, if you dont like choosing your level dont play in new tours. The idea of it was to offer something different for those who enjoy playing at a certain level but cannot because of PGLS rules on levels. The other idea was to have at least one round playing with another player which was also knocked back, the idea of that was to try get a dead M and G lively again. This idea has totally been turned around to being another same as tourney as the rest. I always thought PGLS and previously WGTLS SITES were to cater for all, I must have been mistaken.

i think being able to pick your own level is just going to open a can of worms that is much better left alone.

Explain this can of worms statement, what can of worms?

[Affo]

members have a choice, let them decide using their mouse finger.